Colorism - Even kids know that bigger crayon boxes are always better yo!

In this episode, KC, Ellen and Abim discuss colorism within the Black community and share their own experiences of being judged or overlooked because of their skin tone. They challenge the narrow definition of colorism that only applies to dark-skinned individuals and emphasize the importance of acknowledging the diverse spectrum of Black beauty.

Host KC Carnage (@iamkccarnage), Ellen Branch (@simply_ellen_yoga) and Abim Adewunmi (@abimthedream)

Chapters

• 1:39 Colorism affects all skin tones.
• 4:52 Understanding the African-American dynamic.
• 9:29 Importance of understanding colorism.
• 16:03 Colorism and fetishism in dating.
• 23:15 Representation in relationships matters.
• 24:24 Colorism affects self-perception.
• 32:26 Love yourself, surround with positivity.
• 33:36 Love yourself and be you.

Transcript

00:00 SPEAKER_03 I did have one friend that would always be like, that you going that light skin shit. It's never like, you know, blatant of like, oh you light skinned, so I'ma put you in this category. But it would be like comments of like, I'll say something like, oh that's some light skin shit.

00:13 SPEAKER_02 No, I stuck up for you. And I remember we was having dinner, and someone was like, yeah, you going that light skin shit. They kept calling her light skinned. And I said to them, I said, y'all better stop calling her light skinned. Cause as soon as she turned around and said, y'all dark skinned, y'all gonna have a problem. And y'all gonna wanna fight her. That's it, that's all. That's it, that's all. Black excellence at its finest. How that skin glow, she's a true diamond. With the world out her back, she's still smiling. Never let that crown sit, she stays thriving. That's it, that's all. That's it, that's all. Keep it real. That's it, that's all. That's it, that's all. Is that really it though? What up, what up, what up, y'all. My name is Kasey Carnage and this is Does It, That's All. Where the girls can gather around through shared experiences and just have a shared key key. Today we got some of my girls on the thing. I know y'all know Elanesha already. She's like almost like resident co-host, but like not really. But she here, this is AKA Ellen, AKA Elanesha, AKA Light Bright, AKA Zaddy. Look at me, we got a newcomer on the show. We got a beam, AKA Chocolate Goddess, AKA Africana, Americana Mama. Today we're going to talk about something that plagues us, I think, between our community and through black women. We talk about colorism. I had to bring my chocolate sister on. I'm a being a caramel sister. We got that light skin sister. Because I think that at the end of the day, we all have commonalities. But I think through post-traumatic or systematic oppression that is literally still to this day, I see it. That we still go through. So we're going to talk about that today. But before we do, I like to, you know, like for those who do not know what it is, I'm going to read the definition of it. And I didn't remember, I didn't memorize it. So I'm just going to do it. So colorism is a prejudice or discrimination against individuals with dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group. Colorism within the black community has been a serious emotional and psychological battle. So we're going to talk about that. All right. And I want to know, do you guys have any specific memories of feeling like you were overlooked because of your color? And I know this is, you know, like we got both ends of the spectrum here. That's why this is an important episode.

02:35 SPEAKER_03 I'm a little perturbed by the definition. Because it said it to darker colors, skin people. And it's like, that's not the only way that colorism shows up, especially in the black community. But I think for me, it was transitioning from going to like a predominantly white middle school and then going into high school and it was predominantly black. So the black girls were like, oh, you act like a white girl. You're not really black. And I'm like, what you mean though? Like, I'm brown. What you talking about? So I think that that really threw me off and made me feel like I had to like prove my blackness. Like I was still trying to have… Because you're a lighter skin woman. Yeah, because I'm light skin. And they were like, your daddy white, your mama white? And I'm like, no, they both brown. Like we just all brown. Like I'm high yellow brown. And then I got a little, you know, my mom's like a little bit lighter than you. So and my grandmother is a little bit lighter than you. So we were all, you know, mixed up.

03:31 SPEAKER_02 But I think just looking at me, they assumed that I was just, you know, faking. So you think that the definition is false?

03:38 SPEAKER_03 I don't like it. It's just being anti whatever your skin tone is. If you think that people like, I think black, like black people are beautiful, like dark black. Because we come into all the spectrums. Almost blurple. I love it.

03:51 SPEAKER_02 So, Abim, I mean, what about you?

03:54 SPEAKER_00 A specific memory. I don't think I have one. I think that could be due to my upbringing, which I did go to school with predominantly white folks. Basically all the white folks actually went to school with more mixed folks than black folks at my school. So essentially with white people, it's just I feel like it's just light. It's just black and white. You know what I mean? Like everyone's dark skin to them. Essentially, that's what it is for me. Like everyone's light skin to me. So it's very subjective, I feel. So essentially, I don't feel it when it came to the white folks. But when I started going to college, you know, even in high school, when I was, you know, hanging out with more of the black high schools, the people at the black high schools, you know, that's when, you know, I definitely felt like they were the ones that were like, OK, no, you're a certain level of black. Like you're black, black. OK, that's how it is. That's what you say. You know what I mean? Apart from, you know, growing up with white kids, I grew up with a lot of Nigerians. I am Nigerian-American, first generation. So big Nigerian community and just African community where I'm from in upstate New York. So they didn't make me feel no type of way because, you know, we're all the same. That's where you were. We're Africans. Yeah. Yeah. I can't say I had a specific memory where I felt.

05:14 SPEAKER_02 So let me ask you this. Like, and I saw at a I saw on another podcast where they had black Americans versus Africans. Right. And they were saying how like, you know, the two different. So I guess my question would be to you, like, what was what was that dynamic between being African, first generation African with black Americans? Because that's still kind of the we're still toting on that same line.

05:40 SPEAKER_00 For sure. For sure. Yeah, definitely. I think what a lot of African-Americans are acknowledging these days that, you know, back then, it wasn't cool to be African. It wasn't cool to know that you yourself was from Africa. If you were black American, you weren't doing your DNA test back then. You weren't interested in going to Africa. You know, people were more so made fun of or, you know, seen as again, a different type of black as black people that were defining us versus like the white people were just like, you're just black. You're just African. You know what I mean? So it is interesting to see the change, of course. You know, we want to thank Beyonce for going to Africa and everybody want to go to Africa. It's cool. Bring it back, B. Bring it back, B. You know, once Beyonce does it, we all can do it. But like, you know, and I appreciate Afro Beats coming to America. You know, I love it all. I love to see it. But I do understand sometimes maybe, I don't know if it's animosity or like people that kind of feel like that. So what do you think that the flip side of that is?

06:37 SPEAKER_02 Because I do also hear that black Americans get the same type of pushback from Afro. Like, oh, you're not really African. Oh, for sure. You're not really African. You're not from there. That's the animosity.

06:49 SPEAKER_00 And I think the trauma from you was making fun of me 10 years ago. Now you're trying to get on the same plane. Calling me all kinds of shit. Without any type of apology. I don't know what's needed, an apology, you know, an acknowledgement. I don't know what would be needed from the community.

07:03 SPEAKER_03 From my own perspective of, you know, hanging around like people that are first generation, you know, their parents are from Nigeria or Senegal or somewhere in Africa and they're coming to the United States. Those, the people that are coming, the people that have the money, regardless of where they're from to come to the United States are pretty well off. Right. Like maybe not upper middle class is what we would define it as, but they have enough money to move their entire family to another country. So we're looking from what I've seen of other people, from black people that live here, they're like, we're looking at these African people like they're bougie. They're like, they're like affluent black people. You know what I mean? Like you can do this because you got bread.

07:44 SPEAKER_02 You know what I mean? Everybody's a doctor. And I think that's where the animosity for African Americans comes from. But I think also, I think it's also too, I also think it's the displacement of culture too. Like it's like, you know, like Africans know they culture. They know they from Nigeria. They know they're from Senegal. They know they're from the Ivory Coast. Black people don't, like black Americans don't really know what's rooted. So like I did, I think we did an episode about like traditions and stuff like that. And I was telling them that like for me, one of the things that, you know, always shook in me is like, I didn't like, I didn't believe that I had an actual tradition as somebody that was Jewish or somebody that was African or somebody that was Hispanic. Like there are names for these specific holidays and these specific traditions. And so I think that that animosity between like, you know, black Americans and maybe Africans, they, it's because like we are displaced. Like we don't really know our heritage where y'all come in as proud. I'm proud. I know where I am. I'm rooted in this. I does this. I speak eight languages. What's up?

08:48 SPEAKER_03 You know what I mean? And there's not a lot of transgenerational trauma either. You know, like they have the knowing of their culture and they don't have to think about, oh, well, my, I mean, I can go back. My great, great, great grandfather was doing something, whether sharecropping or slavery, you know, during that time. So it's like they don't have that. They have my great, great grandfather was the was the chief of the ethnic community that we from. And we just, you know, or my great, great grandma was a midwife, you know, in the community. So those are things that like we don't have that. So I think that that's right. Like with the displacement aspect, for sure.

09:22 SPEAKER_00 Yeah, I think also though, part of it is maybe we can come across bougie, you know, maybe I don't know. I think our morals and like our traditions, like you mentioned, like they're like, you know, they're your base. You got to know what you're doing. And I like, you know, it is important to know that, you know, I think people do. I do think people do need to go to Africa. They need to go see it for yourself because it isn't what you see over here. You know, that's just the very few that was able to get themselves over here. It's rough. The ghettos are beyond the ghettos. You know what I mean? So it is very important to know that there's there is trauma over there for sure. A trauma to even just leaving that lifestyle to come over here to like acclimate to this lifestyle and all the different things that come with it. You know, it's different.

10:13 SPEAKER_02 I ask you.

10:15 SPEAKER_03 So my next question would be, how do you feel or how you identify it when you see it happening amongst friendship? I'll see it not necessarily in my tight knit friend groups, more so when I was younger, like high school, like high school, middle school. I did have one friend that would always be like, that you going to light skin shit. It's never like, you know, blatant of like, oh, you light skin, so I'm going to put you in this category. But it would be like comments of like, I'll say something like, oh, that's some light skin shit.

10:45 SPEAKER_02 No, it's so funny that you say that because I remember we had an argument. And I know, no, I know I stuck up for you. I was like, I was like, you know, like, you know, we're like, like, I want to is like, you know, like, we're really good friends and she's in our group. And we're all like darker skin women. And the lighter skin one. And I remember we was having dinner and I was like, yeah, you going to light skin shit. They kept calling light skin. And I said to them, I said, you're going to call her light skin because she turned around and said, you're dark skin. You're going to have a problem and you're going to want to fight her. So just stop. Like, just stop. Because it's not it's like it's funny. But it's like, you know, like it's almost like one of those things that I think that like, you know, dark dark skin women use as a punch to lighter skin. It's like a low blow. And it's like, OK, and because I mean, there's a protective thing, though, I think it's not even our fault that we're doing it. It's like you like like like lighter skin women have always been put on such a high pedestal that if we can dig at you to bring it down a little bit, they're going to do it and not even not out of love or not even to try to bring you down. I just think that's the the mindset that we have been programmed with that if we had the opportunity, oh, you did this. That's some light skin shit. You know what I mean? Like, whatever.

11:53 SPEAKER_00 I've never participated in those activities and I don't have friends that really participate in those activities. That's good. Again, for me, I think like if you dark skin the woman of my charcoal, you know what I mean? It's like everybody lighter than me. And so fortunately enough, like I've never really seen or I guess noticed how dark skin I am until again, people point it out. And for the most part, if a friend or, you know, even an acquaintance, somebody that's, you know, trying to come at me, it was they would, you know, they'd maybe call me chocolate.

12:24 SPEAKER_03 But now I look at you, you're really not that dark. Like when I look at you, like when I think of like dark skin, I think of like less brown tone and more like that, like deep blue. And you don't have that at all. You know what I mean? I mean, you're brown.

12:38 SPEAKER_02 You're brown.

12:39 SPEAKER_04 You don't brown.

12:40 SPEAKER_00 That's why I'm just like, but when you said like, you know, in terms of being overlooked by men, like luckily, I mean, I think it's definitely blatantly has always happened for me. But not enough for me to like, I guess recognize enough or even to like care if that makes sense. But I would say, you know, my list is probably much shorter because again, if we both are dark skinned, but like, you know, and someone's looking for someone.

13:05 SPEAKER_02 Do you have many light skin friends? Are the majority of your friends? No, they are lighter than me.

13:12 SPEAKER_03 I feel the opposite. Like I feel like because I do hang around with predominantly, you know, brown or darker. I mean, if I'm if I'm categorizing light skin, medium brown, brown, dark skin, and then black, you know, see like majority of my friends are medium brown and on. And I think when we go out, the men that are attracted to y'all that I would find attractive or the people that are attracted to my friends that I would find attractive do not look my way at all. They don't want a light skinned girl.

13:42 SPEAKER_02 Well, I mean, that's I mean, you want what you want. I feel like there's going to change also. But it depends. I feel like that depends on the region. Right. Like I feel like, yeah, that may be true. And when we go on the East Coast and the South, exactly. But when we're here, we feel how you felt. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. We'll be like, we've been out like we've been out and like, you know, like, you know, you have like, you know, let me you know our friends. I need to say them on whatever. But like, yeah, they'll go here. I think that is a regional thing. That's what I think it is, because because there's some like you can go like on the East Coast, baby.

14:18 SPEAKER_00 I had no problem where I'm coming from, though. It was like the land of the mix. Like I'm used to seeing black men choose white women. Like, again, growing up, I went to school with more mixed kids than like actual blacks kids. So that part wasn't too, I guess, weird to me when I got here to L.A. just about like a year ago or whatever. But I'm not I don't know if I'm finding it that, you know, it is difficult, but I'm hearing that it is difficult if that makes sense. No, I get it.

14:45 SPEAKER_02 I mean, I grew up in a very mixed community as well, too. So I've seen it like like the difference or whatever. But like, I think what happens is that the media definitely plays in the psyche. Like on top of our systematic trauma, we have the media traumatizing us, telling us what's beautiful, what's not beautiful, what do you need to straighten your hair, whether you need to like be lighter. You have people like, you know, lightening their skin like and it's toxic because it's what is being portrayed out to us. Right. And it's two thousand twenty three. So I don't understand what the problem is. I'm so glad that it's been like, you know, in the last five to seven years, people have really been embracing the natural hair that grows out their head.

15:26 SPEAKER_03 Like it's like what do you want me to do? A couple girls, they're going to get a check because of these lawsuits. I've seen that. I stopped a long time ago. But for my friends, I used to. Why? Girl, you don't understand. Your texture is not permable. My mother got to a point where she was like, I'm tired of doing your hair. Either you're going to let me put a relaxer in it and learn how to do it like a roller set it yourself and do all that. Or you cut it all off. And I was like, all right, we're going to go to that first one. I guess I'm going to pose my next question.

15:59 SPEAKER_02 Do you think that it has affected you in dating? Meaning, is there somebody that you wanted or just in dating in general? Like, has there been comments said to you? Because like on the flip side of that, there's fetishes. Fetishism.

16:19 SPEAKER_04 Fetishism. Fetishism happens as well. I mean, I want you to call it fetishism. Whatever it is.

16:27 SPEAKER_02 That happens too, because I've been on dates and like whether it's been a lighter skin man or a white man or a black man, and they'll say something like, oh, yeah, you like this white dick or you like this Spanish dick or you like this. Like, just like whatever. And I feel like that to me is a thin line between like, I don't even know what to call it. I don't know if that's a colorism thing or if it's a fetish thing, but it blends into colorism.

16:54 SPEAKER_03 Colorism. Yeah, I think that most men, regardless of race, they view black women, especially dark skinned black women, as exotic. So you see an Asian man with a black woman, nine times out of ten, he's with a dark skinned black woman. You see white men, nine times out of ten, they're with somebody who's maybe your complexion a little bit darker. And I think that that comes from the idea that like, you know, black women are exotic, they are to be conquered, like that type of energy, especially when it comes from like we're at the bottom of the totem pole when we think about like women and then how people view different types of women. We at the top of the totem pole. You think so? I think so. So you think, how would you rate it? If we thinking about from the perspective of… Fuck the perspective. But that's what we talking about.

17:42 SPEAKER_02 We talking about colorism. We gotta look at it like that. Black women are number one. I don't care what y'all say. Quote me on it. Mad at me. Comment at the bottom if you got something to say. But go ahead, continue. But no, but you understand what I'm saying. No, I get what you're saying.

17:55 SPEAKER_03 You get what I mean. So I think that that's why it's like that. And I think that when we sit back and we look at ourselves, we might internalize a little bit of that. And it might be like, well, you know, I'm gonna be attracted to what looks exotic to me. And from my perspective, what looks exotic to me is a dark-skinned black man. And I have only dated one dark-skinned black man. And he was Nigerian. And I felt like I had to prove that I could be with a Nigerian man because I'm light-skinned, mixed, and American. And it was really difficult because he was like quizzing me on all the things that he thought that a black woman or a woman in general, especially a Nigerian woman, maybe that was his comparison. I don't know what that means because I'm not what you might be able to attest to. He was asking me, oh, well, do you know how to cook? And do you do this? That type of stuff, very traditional. And it was difficult for me because I know how to be domesticated. But at the same time, it's like I don't want that to be necessarily something that I put on my resume. Right, the criteria to have to catch. I appreciate you.

19:09 SPEAKER_00 I mean, OK, so in terms of the other racist thing, I do find that white men, they do find us exotic. But then I also see it more as like a slave master thing. I don't know why. I just feel like, uh-uh, because you're not about to have me. You know, that's where I feel like that energy kind of sometimes comes from. And I'm not the one. So it's just, yeah. You know, you got to like, yeah. I feel you.

19:38 SPEAKER_03 But I'm thinking about the times that I've been in situations.

19:41 SPEAKER_02 I mean, I mean, I mean, the ones that I have, the ones that I had had, I didn't get that energy. But I understand the energy because there has ones that have tried me. And I'm just kind of like, no, you know what I mean? Like, still know your place because I do believe that, like, you know, there's beautiful people everywhere. But like, white, no offense. No offense. I know you're going to comment, but like, no offense. But white people always do some white people shit. See, that's the same shit when I'm like, like, what is it? I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. I'm a low. I am. I am a Montclair kid, a suburb kid. Some of my best friends are white. Some of my best friends are Indians. Like, I literally. But I mean, at the end of the day, you who you are, I'm sure that, you know, like we could say shit about us. Like, you always end up doing some white shit. Like, I'm trying to figure it out because I'm not like, I can't figure it out.

20:31 SPEAKER_03 So give me like a scenario because the one time that I was with a white man and I mean, white women and white men, it's always been the conversation around like race has always been a very big issue with them. And I think do you think that that comes from us or do you think that comes from them? Because I was going to say when you say it's an issue for them, it's always a topic of conversation. You know how like if you with a black man or you with a black woman, it's not weird because you're both black. You know what I'm saying? We don't have to talk about what blackness is or why I want to roll my hair up or why I want to wear a scarf to bed or why I need to, you know, I don't know, not put my purse on the ground, whatever it is.

21:11 SPEAKER_02 Like it's stuff like that that I think is always a topic of conversation. No, go ahead. So this is my this is my view on it. And I'm going back to what I just said to what you just said. Just like we have been through systematic trauma, they I'm not saying they're going through systematic trauma, but they have been taught and learned on some other shit. So the ones that are truly trying to break it down and really understand, I think the fear comes from them not wanting to say the wrong thing. Like the one the real ones, because there are some real ones out there. I can't even there's no cat. There are some real ones out there. And I think their fear is they don't want to do or say the right thing. And then also to asking the question, you don't know unless you ask the question. So if they've never been around something that has intrigued them or actually been immersed in the culture, they're not going to get to where we need them to be or want them without asking the question. So for us, it's like, damn, why you keep asking these questions? For them, it's like, and depending on where their heart is, like, you know, I mean, there's some people that are assholes and that's for you to decipher which one they are. But like if they've never been around it and it's something that they're seeking, like any knowledge, they got to go to the source. They got to go to the source. So it just depends on how they say, right. Like that's if you want to sign up for it. That's if you want to sign up for it.

22:33 SPEAKER_03 I mean, like the first two years of my last long term relationship, it was helping this person confront the fact that like they grew up in a racist household and I couldn't do nothing about it. You know what I'm saying? Like it was just like you really did that and they was really OK with it. They really said that and you didn't say, I got black friends, you know, like, you know.

22:52 SPEAKER_00 So, yeah, the one thing I do want to say also about the dating, because now I think about it like maybe it is like myself that just like, I don't know, train my brain to just like not have high expectations, not have high hopes or just like, you know, numb to it. What comes to me will come to me. But I remember I had a conversation with someone so many years ago that it stuck with me to date and I'm still trying to figure out the puzzle. But they said, name one celebrity couple where the woman is darker than the man. Like one successful celebrity couple. It took us forever. The only person we could come up with was Oprah and Stedman and that man is not a celebrity. OK, let me see. Let me see if we can think about it. And I was just like, well, damn, the representation like you said, it's like. And then when you said what you said about how, you know, your family. You said the woman is darker than the man. Yeah. And they're both on like the same successful celebrity status. I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know.

23:49 SPEAKER_02 Because even because. Maybe Angela Bassett and her husband. Well, you know who he is. Courtney. Oh, he's an actor. No, but they're both the same. Right. So you mean like the drastic change. Like Oprah and Stedman.

24:02 SPEAKER_03 Right. No, it's always a dark skinned woman and a light skinned woman.

24:06 SPEAKER_02 I'm looking it up. But continue the conversation.

24:08 SPEAKER_00 When I say I've had this thing for like this has been a puzzle for me for like over a decade. I've been trying to figure out. But I think it just goes to show like, you know, maybe my brain is just like trained along those lines of like, you know. I don't know.

24:22 SPEAKER_02 That's a fair thought. Oh, we will get to that. So my next question would be, have you ever wanted to be lighter or darker than you are? Like, has that ever come across? And when was that like, how did that affect you?

24:36 SPEAKER_00 Like, what was your thought process on that? Yeah, I think. Growing up. I don't know. I never. I don't know. It's like, I don't know if I actually said I like I wanted to be lighter. I think there was a point in time when I was like online and, you know, Amy was there and like was in the chats and everything. And, you know, I did used to pretend to be somebody else. Yeah, we all catfished. Okay, period. That was a visual catfish. And my go to was always this like light skinned Puerto Rican girl named Ashley. So you was Ashley. But she was Puerto Rican. So I don't know.

25:13 SPEAKER_02 I'm like, what are you trying to do? I'm trying to be white. What is it? I'm like, what is it?

25:17 SPEAKER_00 I'm trying to be you. No, but I think that, yeah, like subconsciously, that was maybe me wanting to maybe be somebody else. But like in terms of when you were mentioning like bleaching, like that's very big in like the Nigerian African community. I never wanted to do things like that. Like how did they even like I always wanted to ask that.

25:34 SPEAKER_02 Like, I mean, I'm sure you don't know the history of your whole nation. But like, how do you like like I'm sure like growing up in that and seeing that like how did that even like come about? Like what like what people just like I'm going to do this one day and it just happened. I think just trying to do be European standards featured.

25:53 SPEAKER_00 The same thing we're doing over here. North African. But is that is that was projected in Nigeria?

25:59 SPEAKER_02 Like is that in the media as well as it is here? I would say so. I mean, it's in the media.

26:05 SPEAKER_00 You know, everyone wants to have their body right. Hair right. Still over there. And I think, yeah, maybe it's also just even like global celebrities again, like just the lack of representation. Maybe that's why people thought they had to like in their skin. But it's interesting to see it in like just like so. But it's also so pasty. It's so weird. It doesn't look good.

26:25 SPEAKER_02 It's never like it's never like only be right here. It'd be from like the chin up and the hands. And I'm like, but it's never like a good skin tone.

26:33 SPEAKER_03 It's never like a good skin tone. It's never like a good skin tone.

26:37 SPEAKER_02 It's like literally like you like it's bleach like you jumped in some bleach. But then also like your skin never quite gets moisturized again. Yeah, I recommend it. Y'all stop doing it. It's not worth it because them side effects down the line. You don't want to. How about you, Ellen? I always just want to be darker. Always.

26:56 SPEAKER_03 And I don't think I realized that I was as light as I was until I started school because like I say, like I grew up with my grandma like in the daycare. And she was dark skinned. My grandfather was dark skinned. Like my mom's a little bit lighter than you. My dad was the only person who was like considered like high yellow. But realistically speaking, I didn't realize that I was as light as I was. So growing up, we know we go to the beach. I'm like, oh, you know, my grandma's name. I just call her name. I'm like, Nanny, I'm almost as dark as you. You know, I was always striving to be like her complexion. So I think that it's always been something that I wanted. And people like, oh, you know, you know, you can marry yourself a light skinned man. So you can have light skinned man. I know I want to marry a dark black man so that my babies can be brown. I mean, you know, that one little drop of whiteness is going. Why did you feel like you wanted to be darker?

27:47 SPEAKER_02 Is it because like that's just what you saw in your family? I thought it was beautiful. I thought it was. I thought it was natural.

27:54 SPEAKER_03 I thought it was like what real black people were.

27:57 SPEAKER_02 So that is that's a that's a very interesting take on it because you felt like you felt like on the end that you didn't feel like you fit in. I didn't. Yeah.

28:08 SPEAKER_03 When I was in high school, it was you are trying to be black. And I'm like, no, but I am like, what do you mean? Like, I can't I can't watch this off just like you can't watch yours off. So I think that that was the part that struck that I struggle with because I was like, I was like, I'm not going to be black. I was struggling with because most of my friends were darker than me. And it was just a constant thing of like, oh, light, bright light skin. Heard all of that.

28:32 SPEAKER_00 So it was just it was rough. But like have you ever dated like you've been on a date and you listen to because, you know, you listen to people's words. Have you ever felt any type of way about their preferences and how they look like anything they say gave you a side eye? Mm hmm. I feel like men love to tell me that they prefer dark skinned women. Like it's been their their thing for their whole life. And I don't know if it's because it's like a newer wave to be into dark skinned women. They're like, oh, I've always loved chocolate women or like I only date chocolate. I've always always.

29:04 SPEAKER_02 Do you think that's patronizing? No. Do you think that that is like because like my friend used to say to me like she was like, I hate when they queen me to death. Like, hey, queen, hey, queen, queen. So when you out like them saying, oh, I love dark skinned women, I love dark skinned women. Like, how do you take that?

29:18 SPEAKER_00 Like, do you take it as like it's a compliment or the repetitiveness? Maybe it's like reassurance. I kind of take it as a compliment. I think I know people that don't. I've heard that maybe I saw it like on a TikTok or something like people don't take it as that. They take it as, you know, people colorism. They take it as them, you know, letting you know that like, you know, I only date black women because white women and whatever issues you have with other women. But yeah, I kind of do take it as a compliment. I mean, I don't need to hear it. But it is interesting how I find that a lot of men are just like, I've always liked chocolate women. I'm just like, okay, that's cool. I've always liked chocolate.

30:01 SPEAKER_01 I've always liked chocolate too. Hey, chocolate, we can be chocolate together. How about you, Ellen?

30:07 SPEAKER_03 I used to, like I told y'all, I used to like perm my hair. I used to get relaxers and stuff. So when I started my natural hair journey, people were like, oh, you're going to, you're going to, you know, press your hair. You're going to flat on your hair. And I'd be like, no, I'm going to let it grow out. I'm going to wear my curls natural. And they were like, oh, you look more, you look more Hispanic with your hair straight or you look more like you're not really black, like from like from America. And I was like, okay.

30:34 SPEAKER_02 No, but what I'm asking you is that when you have been dating, like say for instance, you want to date and you interview in this person, have you ever heard them come out? Because you know that there's things that they people say that they don't know that you caught. Right. Like, has there anything that you can think that stood out that somebody has said that made you sigh?

30:55 SPEAKER_03 I don't think I catch it until I change my look up. So I don't normally do that.

31:00 SPEAKER_02 Okay. I was going to say that too, because I remember a guy got upset, like not upset, but like really tried to like lecture me because I, because he couldn't run his fingers through my hair. And he was like, well, I need to make sure he literally said he's like, well, the girls I'd like to date, they have a certain type of hair texture because I know what I want my kids texture to be.

31:22 SPEAKER_00 Okay. I'm worried about that type of stuff more than women. Like, who's worried about that? Oh my God.

31:30 SPEAKER_02 And I was just like, and I had to tell him, I said, you don't gotta touch my hair. Just know that my hair is thick and healthy. That's all you need to know. That's it. That's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. And so I want to wrap this up by saying, I want to leave a message. I like to leave messages. What would you say to any girl that may be struggling with their skin tone and what would you leave them with?

31:52 SPEAKER_00 What would I say? I mean, love yourself as much as possible. It's easier said than done for sure. Surround yourself with people that, you know, support you, uplift you, you know, don't bring you down or, you know, put, make you feel any type of way about your skin tone. I think that's probably why I was so successful with my skin tone. I don't know. I think people really think I should be like in the corner and like sad about how dark I am sometimes. But I think based on how others treated me and how I perceived it, you know, I've been fine. So I would just say continue to love yourself, surround yourself with good people and know that you're beautiful no matter what.

32:32 SPEAKER_01 OK. Beautiful. Trends.

32:35 SPEAKER_00 Forget trends. Right, forget the trends. They're temporary.

32:39 SPEAKER_03 I would say to the little light-skinned girls, to all the little light-skinned girls, no really. I would say that, you know, regardless of whether you're mixed, you know, white and black or, you know, black and Native American or you're Afro Latin, whatever it is, like the fact that you have curly hair and brown skin, that still makes you a black woman. So don't think that you have to prove anything else. Like don't pretend to be little ratchet Elenisha because that's where Elenisha came from. That was, you know, Elenisha in high school, you know, ratchet Sally. Like you don't have to do that. Like you can just be yourself. You can be smart.

33:20 SPEAKER_02 You can be everything that you want to be and you don't have to prove and fulfill anybody's stereotype of blackness. I would say to the little girls around the world, even some of the adults. I'm mad. You got real low like you're like Mr. Rogers. I would say that at the end of the day, I love being a black woman. And one of the main reasons why I love being a black woman is because we like Baskin Robbins. We got them 32 flavors. So if you are not feeling like you love yourself, like there is somebody that will love you and you are going to love you and look around. Like the beauty is that we are a variety. All right. So even if you don't look like the next person, they don't look like you either. Be you, be loved, receive love and accept it. Because at the end of the day, that's the only body you got. I mean, you can snip, snip and do whatever you want to do it. But at the end of the day, it's still your body and you have to love yourself so you can know groove to this thing we call life.

34:21 SPEAKER_03 And people pay millions of dollars to look like us. Too bad. Too bad.

34:25 SPEAKER_02 But I just want to thank you guys for coming on. And like I said, anything that we talk about, you all join the conversation. Please comment, please like, share, subscribe, do all the things you do when you want to find out the information that you want to find out. And again, my name is Casey Carnage and that's it. That's all. That's it. That's all is written by me, Casey Carnage and produced by myself and Rick Barrio-Dill. Executive producer is Duff Ferguson. Our senior producer is Sabrina Seward. Associate producer, Bree Corrie. Audio and video engineering and studio facilities provided by Slap Studios LA with distribution through our collective for social progress and cultural expression, Slap the Network. If you have any ideas for a show you want to hear or see, please email us at info at slap the power dot com. And as always, go to that's it. That's all dot com and sign up there to make sure you will never miss a thing. See you next show.